EP 29: what Ease, soul clients, and messaging that starts with ‘you’ have in common
If you’ve ever felt as if you were spinning your wheels on social media, or in your business at all, this episode is for you. Jo Ingram joins me to talk about creating a business so true to yourself, so full of ease, that it readily attracts your soul clients and feels not only sustainable but joyful. If you’ve felt the burnout of hustling to do business someone else’s way, tune in, then let us know your thoughts.
jo’s Bio
Jo Ingram is a former Advertising Agency Director, turned Business Coach, Brand Messaging Strategist and Energy Curator. Jo helps high-achieving and ambitious female coaches clarify their unique brand message so they can magnetize their soul clients, by combining proven online business strategies with energy work and spiritual modalities, including Pranic Healing, breathwork and Law Of Attraction.
Within her signature program, Time To Rise, Jo teaches how to elevate from being unseen to standing out in a crowded niche, together with tools to invite ease and alignment into everyday business growth. She lives in London UK with her husband, three daughters and lockdown rescue cat Olive, and her perfect day always starts with hand-feeding the swans in her nearby woods.
Connect with Jo
Episode Transcript
Becca 0:05
Welcome to probably bothered the podcast that cuts through online business man's so that you can redefine your version of success. Because I believe if you aren't a little bit bothered, you probably aren't paying attention. If you are tired of spinning your wheels on social media or trying to figure out the best way to talk about your offer, and yourself as a business owner, than this episode is for you. Today, I am speaking with Joe Ingram, and she is a former advertising agency director turned business coach, her specialty is working with high achieving entrepreneurs, and specifically female coaches to clarify their unique brand message so that they can find their soul clients. And guys, when I tell you, she spilled everything, we have her brand epics, we have her system that she uses to work with clients, and she didn't hold anything back. So I'm gonna stop here. Let's jump into the episode. And we'll get back together at the end. I am sitting here today with Joe Ingram. And she is one of those people that I've been super excited to talk about because of her value of creating ease in your business. And that's something that I resonate with so much as a business owner, because if it's not easy, if it's not easy, that's the word. If it's not easy, then it's not meshing well with my life. So I'm super excited to get into this conversation with Joe and really dig into how we can create in a business that is full of ease. So welcome to the podcast, Joe.
Jo Ingram 1:52
Oh, great to be here. Becca, thank you for having me,
Becca 1:55
of course. So I am going to dive right in, obviously, to the conversation about ease. And how did you get to the point of really recognising that the ease is the thing like the difference in your business and the thing that you really wanted to focus on to set yourself apart?
Jo Ingram 2:13
Oh, it's a great question. And the truth is, it comes to a fact of living a life that was not in ease. I spent well, more than 18 years working corporate, for big advertising agencies in London. And as you can imagine, that was quite a frantic corporate environment to be in, you know, serving clients who are paying 1000s, if not millions of pounds or dollars for the services and spending a fortune on advertising. And I was found that I was always on the backfoot always rushing around, there was very little ease, particularly as I became a mum, I've got three daughters, and trying to juggle all of that became really stressful. And I decided many years ago that that industry wasn't for me. But I didn't know what my purpose was, like so many of us, it took me time to really lean into that. And really, the universe jumped in on that one. And it was the beginning of the pandemic. And everybody started working from home. And my firm laid me off. And that was a bit of a kicker at the time. But even then I recognised that actually, this was a massive opportunity for me to do what really lights me up, and I knew it was going to be coaching. And I just decided to just go with the flow for the first time in a long time. Not that I had a choice and see how that was going to be. But interestingly, only six months later, I had basically burned myself out because I was so used to the hustle. So used to working long hours pushing, striving, efforting that I was the worst boss than any of the bosses I'd ever had. And it was like, hang on a minute, this is my business. What is this, this can't be and at that point, I took stock. And I'd already trained as a pranic healer. But in my mind, I'd kept things very separate. And says give me the opportunity to say what is ease really look like. And that's when I leaned into the more spiritual side of running a business I started leaning into energetics and different modalities and ultimately leaning into intuition and flow and the feminine side, which so many of us high achieving women, you know, we're all about that masculine drive. And you know, the the masculine side of us is really important, but the reality is when it's out of balance as it was for me and so many others, that's when I was really suffering so you asked about ease I guess that's the long way round, but it was essential that I brought it into my business or I wouldn't be here today I'm not I think I'd probably either had a breakdown or gone straight back into corporate because all I knew that kind of energetic space that really wasn't very helpful. But yeah, here I am today and now I'm teaching ease to my clients who in the most part are very much like I was and I still have tendencies to it. is pushing striving, you know that that energy, which is what do I, what do I need to do to achieve? And the truth is, we need to chill, right?
Becca 5:11
We do need to chill, you know, I found for myself and I know for other entrepreneurs that I've spoken with as well that that unlearning of the hustle that you learn in that corporate environment that you internalise in the corporate environment is one of the hardest parts about entrepreneurship, because you almost always feel like if I take the day off, or if I only focus on this one thing, I'm not working as hard as I should I'm not doing enough. I couldn't be more successful there. All of these internalised messages. So how were you able to help yourself? And how do you help your clients to to unlearn those things and undo all that internalisation?
Jo Ingram 5:54
Yeah, that's so so important. The reality is, is that it's a lot about being kind to ourselves, and pacing ourselves, the way that I see it is that we want sustainable and joyful businesses. And if you want to be in it for the long term, and you want to really love what you do, you don't really have a choice, you have to find a way of really relaxing into it and accepting that sometimes you have to lean into trust, rather than pushing something because as entrepreneurs, only so much is within our control in any given moment. Hell is humans only so much is in our control. And all we can control is ourselves. And you know, the thing, particularly in coaching is I haven't got any clients, I want more clients, how do I attract clients, and you get into a real negative Tailspin around the stories that you tell yourself, which is if I work harder, I'll get clients, or you know, if I did this one thing better or whatever. But the truth is, is that oftentimes, it's the energy that you're showing up in, that's going to create that magnetism and that attraction that people want to know more, because you're having such a great time, you're so clearly the poster child of your own business that people lean in. And the best way of creating that is to really do the things that we all know, help us along our way. And the things that I particularly personally like to lean into include short meditations, short, short, like this, the No bullshit hit, you know, form for, particularly for very ambitious female coaches and professional women, we have really active minds, and that's a gift, you know, that is something that has got us this far, will create more success in our future. So I learned that fighting against that and trying to become the world's master meditator was never going to be something that was going to work, what can work for me is doing really short meditations that I feel really good about. And that's what I now teach to the clients in my group programme. And we go through different meditations that really focus us into what we want to achieve and allow us to feel that level of trust. But equally, journaling is a firm favourite. And my favourite prompt for just getting on with it is what's going right for me right now, which is an important one. Because if you think about, although it's really, really simple, it actually allows us to express some appreciation and gratitude for what we have achieved. And to frequently we kind of ignore, we have achieved and instead, it's all about what we haven't got yet. And of course, if you're into things like the law of attraction, you know that that is going to go right off in the wrong direction. But even if you just think about it from a more, a more sort of physical point of view, when you're in an attitude of gratitude, and you're feeling good about yourself, you're just going to keep showing up and feeling happy. So it's always worth thinking about what's actually working. Because that's when we're able to lean into that actually, I'm not doing so bad vibe, which of course then allows us to keep going in a really happy way, and not that frantic kind of pushing and striving and trying to sort of prove something to some imaginary person who is actually us. We don't need to prove anything, because we're good enough, just being here today. And some of that more spiritual stuff has been incredibly helpful on my journey, and I'm finding more and more people are leaning into that as a way of unlocking this kind of high vibration mode. That really is, is so fundamental to having that sort of longer burn when it comes to being in business and not being that flash in the pan. I mean, that's something I had a stat the other day, it was something Gosh, I'm not gonna remember it. I do apologise, but the crux of it was, was that those few percentages of business owners who go on to be successful, as correlate with those that just have the staying power, and stay in it, you know, it's those who show up, they do a year, two years burnout had enough, go off, do something different. It's not that they couldn't achieve it just they didn't create the ease in those first important years of building a business that allowed them to just stay in the game, keep showing up, be consistent, and then start seeing the results building over time.
Becca 10:22
That makes so much sense. I feel like I should tell you that I am a big fan of making up statistics here on the show. So you are in good company
Jo Ingram 10:32
7%. That's what it was seven. When I used to work in advertising, we had this thing was like, as long as you ended with a seven, everyone I believe you. So that's true or not. But if you ever come across someone work for an advertising agency that tell you seven to 7% of people XYZ, they're probably making that up that step. That is
Becca 10:53
a good thing to know, for life in general. So I want to weave this conversation into the idea of unique brand messaging, because I know that that is a big piece of what you do and what you help your clients with. And I think that a lot of what we've spoken about obviously kind of flows into this, when you kind of unlearn those things that you've learned from corporate, when you get to know yourself, when you see what is working, that's when you can kind of start to identify those trends. In this world of so much noise and so many voices, having that being able to get to that unique brand messaging is so important. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your approach to that.
Jo Ingram 11:37
You make such a good point. I mean, anyone working in this space of coaching and entrepreneurship, you go into Instagram or anywhere and it feels like the whole world is doing what you do. You like life coaching, there's 1000s, business coaching, health coaching, and so on. And it's really easy to think well, how can I possibly get clients when there are other people out there, and they're been doing it longer than me, and they're bigger than me, and they've got a big following and all this, these stories go around our head. And that's what happened to me when I first moved into business coaching. And it was a real challenge at first to decide, well, what is it that I do that is different to other people? And what is it that makes me unique? And why would someone specifically want to work with me. But fortunately, because I've been working for media and advertising agencies for what getting on for 20 years, I had a real background in considering brands, and propositions and target audiences. And all of these things that we use slightly different words for it in the coaching industry, but it's the same thing. And I was like, hold on a minute, why have I thrown the baby out with the bathwater of all these years of experience in marketing that I got here in my brain. And actually, I just need to apply it. But it wasn't as simple as just saying, okay, use what I got from my previous experience in my old job. And this is what a lot of women do. They take their old corporate job or their old nine to five, and they just transplant it into coaching. And quite a few women I know have made six figures doing that you can be very, very successful. But much to our point earlier, where it can fall down is where you're not in full alignment with actually all the things that really light you up. And this is where I started looking into a lot more detail about the key elements that really create a unique brand. That's not only sort of two dimensional, but it's really bringing in all of the uniqueness that you have and the stories that you have to tell. Because the reality is it's just remember why we're doing this. Two reasons actually. One is because it's the best possible way of magnetising and attracting our soul clients. I like to call them soul clients, which you know, some people call ideal clients. But the difference is that soul clients actually light you up as much as you light them up, and I wasn't prepared to be uninspired by my own clients. I did work with some people that I recognised. Hmm, this is interesting, I can help them I can get them so far. But this feels like hard work. And if anyone's been in the coaching space, they're going to know what I'm talking about. It's like you really know the difference between working with a client that you feel like you're pulling through the curriculum, or a client that just is lit up by everything and can't wait to do the work and you know, they're gonna get amazing results and not only and you're both showing up 100% To get them the outcome that they want. And I just thought you know what the, what you need to do is actually attract soul clients and the best way of getting soul clients is to bring all of you into your uniqueness. And I realised that actually there were five key ingredients that you can really dive into I call it my trademarked brand epics method just to see the epic x basically stands for experience, pain points, interests, character or personality and skills. And when I work with my clients, I dive in deep on all those areas. And you'd be amazed what comes out, things that people haven't even really thought of that are absolutely fundamental ingredients to their unique messaging for their business. And a good example of my own was about six months into my business where I was working in the productivity and accountability space, I was teaching entrepreneurs how to be good CEOs, you can see a trend here, I've come out and I was like, I got skills. And I started teaching and I was having some success, I was making some money. But there was something that was going on, which was, as I kind of mentioned earlier, I was starting to get a bit more woowoo. And I was leaning more and more into the Pranic Healing law of attraction, Kabbalah tapping, so to get like, not just into it, but I would do this as a hobby, I don't need to be paid to do this stuff. This was an absolute joy of mine became an interest. And then I started getting certifications. So it became a skill. It was certainly a passion, it became part of my character. It was a fundamental part of who I was, and yet I wasn't doing it in my business. And interestingly, I like to consider it two ways of hiding. One is you're actually you're actually hidden from yourself, you don't even realise it. So I definitely had a breakthrough there. I was like, Aha, this is what I should be doing. But there's a second form of hiding as well, which is fear of judgement. Because quite often, women coaches have this fear of judgement, and I was no different. I was like, How can I go on Facebook and LinkedIn, and so on and say, Oh, by the way, my business is Yeah, about brand messaging strategy. But we're going to do it in alignment, we're going to do with ease, we're going to follow spiritual practices. I'm going to do meditations with you, we're going to show up and do all this energetic goodness. And I just thought, wow, what were the women at the watercooler from my old office, and they have this right.
But of course, it wasn't anything about those women, it was about how I was judging myself. And it took a bit of courage really to get over that. But once I made that breakthrough, my business really started to turn a corner in a different direction, which was that of ease as well as making impact and income. So that's why now these three areas of impact, income and ease are really where I like to send to my teachings. And the key to that for for me and my clients, certainly, and I believe that many coaches are out there, furiously trying to build a following on Instagram, or trying to build their mailing list or frantically creating the perfect lead magnet was all of these things are absolutely important for your business. If you have not got unique brand messaging, you are never going to build your business in those three ways that I described, it's always going to feel hard. Because imagine if you really cut to the chase, and you get that brand messaging in place, everything else you do is going to be magnetised in how magnified rather in how it actually works for you, you want followers on Instagram, that you're not going to get them if they bounce off of your profile as soon as they get there. Because it's just not speaking to them. So that's the direction that you know, I feel so passionate about. And it's my mission really. And that's that's how I teach people to make all make that difference in their business by bringing in all of the ingredients of myself and being very authentic and honest about it.
Becca 18:34
I have had a similar conversation. So often recently, especially. And everybody listening knows I'm a huge fan of tick tock, I feel like you're talking about tick tock on every single episode of probably bothered. But here we are, again, what I haven't really brought up lately is this shift, like I have been sensing and I don't think I'm the only one to shift away from Instagram. And it's hard as a business owner to feel like you have put so much time effort and energy, energy spinning your wheels on a platform that in a lot of ways or in some ways doesn't feel like it has kind of paid off for you. And now it's just almost gone. And I know that there. I'm speaking in like hyperbole, of course, there's still a place for Instagram, and then some people are still using it successfully very actively. And that's great. Personally, I'm essentially stepping away from the platform. I do an update here there but mostly I'm on tick tock. So this this idea of, of where you're spending your time and your effort and versus how or versus the intention you're putting behind something has been coming up more and more often for a lot of my friends in this space as well. And I love the way that you talk about bringing your whole self and really acknowledging to yourself and externally, who you are and how you can I'll make a difference. And that's the intention piece that I think I don't see everyone doing.
Jo Ingram 20:07
So, so true. I mean, it was a massive breakthrough for me as well. Because I'd spent the first year just doing absolutely everything, like launched three programmes, I had a membership, I'd created a passive, passive cause I was like, this is the key, right? This is the key to all things. When I wonder I burned out. But the truth is, I'd have spent that first six months really embedding my unique messaging and understanding how I make a unique difference and how I help specific women coaches, and got a lot tighter in that and started talking about it with a lot more consistency. You want to become somebody that others understand instantly, what you're about how you help them what you do to the point that if they hear it, spoken by somebody who says they've got a certain problem, they're able to say, Ah, you want to talk to Joe Ingram, you want to talk to this coach or that coach, because she's the one that does that specifically. And too often there's this split energy, people aren't really sure exactly what their messaging is, they're not sure exactly how they help in a very defined and specific way. And so they're talking about a lot of different things. And they might be very capable of helping in many different areas. But it isn't that cut through messaging that's going to get you your first 10k month, your first goals, whatever they might be your first high impact coaching programme and so on. It's really about that intentionality and our focus. And by the way, Becker, I just have to say that I do actually love watching Tik Tok as well. I've got 11 year old twins, and we watch tick tock together, and we do the dances. And I'd have an 18 year old daughter as well, who spends most of her life watching Tik Tok. So, I do, I do see that it is a massive growth platform as I've gone there briefly and started posting a few things. But ultimately, I think I'm probably missing the boat if I don't get in there in a bigger way soon. So I'm looking forward and what's your tic TOCs now going to add you to my watch list. So me and the twins can watch your dances. Oh,
Becca 22:10
I don't do dances. Oh man, I do style console tables and, and home decor, though. So
Jo Ingram 22:21
nice.
Becca 22:22
There you go. Anyway, way I, as you were talking about the consistency and the messaging that really cuts through, it also reminded me of this conversation about quick wins versus staying power. And I think that's something that we've seen a lot in the social media space in the form of niche down. And in my experience of niching down was rather negative not in terms of my business, I think it did what it needed to do. But in terms of my personal view, I got so bored with my content. And I really like rebelled against this idea of niching down. But I love the way that you're explaining it not that you said niche down I'm not putting words in your mouth. But I love the concept of what you're explaining, which is figure out who you are, be true to who you are, and have a consistent thing that you say. And then people really, truly understand it. But also the flip side of it is in terms of staying power in your business, you're not wasting your time, creating courses, and building your list and doing all of these things that you spent the first six months of your business doing and then eventually pivoted away from because you haven't had the chance to do that work yet. So I feel like a lot of times we create something so fast, whether it's on social media or an offer in our business, because there's just this sense of I need to make money. Now I need to figure this out. I've got to just do this, this and this. And we don't take the time to think is this intentional? Is this what I need to be doing? Is this the thing that best showcases my skills and ability and unique perspective and personality? And that's where we can miss the boat.
Jo Ingram 24:06
Oh, you put that so well. Absolutely true. And those those programmes that membership and everything that I launched in those first six months, they never got repeated. It was a one time thing and the amount of work that went into each one of those. And it's because I had moved really fast. It's like yeah, okay, I'm capable of doing it. I'm a real ambitious high achieving person, just do it, do it, do it. And you know, whilst I achieved it, it didn't have any staying power, because I'd already moved on by the time I delivered it to the third cohort. I was already moved on. It wasn't aligned with really what how I wanted to teach what I wanted to say. And so now the when I'm working with clients, we very much go back to those basics. Now go through it in a very important three stages, which is always starting with you. And this is what some people teach the other way around. which is find someone that's willing to pay for something and create that. And I'm very much against that. I'm like, No, this is not going to create that staying power and that sustainable joyful business, find out what you are about. And we dive into that really deeply in the way that I just described with the brand, Epix method and a number of other other ways to just bring that out and get that confidence and clarity that I have something to give on unique, even if I'm teaching something that somebody else can teach, no one's going to have my unique perspective on it, and bring the all those unique elements of my, you know, my experiences and my passions into this particular piece. Secondly, then we move to your sole client or your ideal client, and really making sure that that second part of the equation is really lined up. And for me, that was that was leaning into the character piece. That's what unlocked my ideal client on the new level. Because at the beginning, I had decided that because I got a real go getter, kind of action orientated character, there for my perfect clients, or those that do not have that this is what I thought, originally, I thought, Where can I add value, I realised there's a lot more owners that just weren't hitting their goals, they needed accountability, they needed goal setting. And there were plenty of coaches out there that do this full time. And I was like, well, maybe that's who I am. But that's when I discovered that actually, those clients is adorable and lovely they are to, to meet with as humans, they weren't my ideal clients, because I needed clients that were going to move fast paced, and I'm going to enjoy that meeting of minds and the inspiration and that sort of high energy, vibration. And it was only when I dived into really looking at all those elements of myself that I realised that hang on a minute, if my character is this way, then my perfect energetic match other women who are the same. And as soon as I realised that and started instead creating content and talking to those women, and I changed that up on my podcast, too. And I started addressing those women saying, Hey, I know you want to move fast, I know that you're ambitious, and you've got big goals. And I know that you're worried about burning out. And I know that you've had enough of doing all the things and you really do want to cut through and so on. And I started creating messaging that actually communicated to myself, that's a little, little tip, if you really want to call in people that kind of light you up, write content yourself. And you'd be amazed how resonant it is by and it calls in those clients that you are meant to work with. And then the third stage, is really creating a signature offer. That's really bringing all of that to life. And that's what I've also discovered, particularly for coaches in their first year or two, getting those three things under their belt, and really understanding their messaging around their personal and powerful framework of how they create change for their clients, and so on, is what you where you kind of add clarity and confidence and get clients. And it's a really, really simple little method, right, everybody needs to get absolute clarity on their messaging and their offer and their ideal client and they need the confidence to show up, deliver it and know that they're going to create change and have trust that clients are going to come towards them. And indeed, that is exactly what happened in my experience. And that's what happens with my clients as I work with them through those things. And you literally see that breakthrough and that shift, because that clarity causes that confidence, you know, a little bit like, oh, I don't know, it's not sort of working. And then suddenly you realise these things, and you start putting out content and it starts attracting people. And you start realising that how I got this, and it sky's the limit from there.
Becca 28:57
Okay, I think it's time for my favourite question, which is, in this space, what bothers you? What would you like to see change for the better? What do we need to address so that this industry can move forward?
Jo Ingram 29:10
I love this question. Okay. Might not be a big surprise. But I hate copycat coaching. So what are all cookie cutter coaching, nice alliteration, whichever way you look at it, but it's basically where amazing humans show up in the coaching space, and lack the confidence and the clarity to such an extent that they'll kind of hook on to messaging that other more successful coaches have. Now I don't believe that they're copying intentionally. It's not like declaring that they're doing something wrong. I think it's not their fault. I think it wasn't my fault, because I did it too. There was a really big coach who I admire greatly within the industry. That was somebody whose programme I went on and I learned a lot from her, but I kind of realised not realised I thought that well i Guess the way she's doing? It must be right. So I even subconsciously, I remember the first couple of episodes of my podcast, I remember using some of her language and intimating more like her, because I thought being her was gonna be the key to success. And, you know, it's great to use swipe files, for example, that can help you so much, particularly to get set up. But if you're consistently using other people's words and other people's positioning, there's only so far you're gonna go with that, because it's not going to be something that will resonate really deeply with your sole clients. So you're either going to struggle to get clients, or when you do get clients, they're going to be those ones that really drain your energy. And you're going to wonder why you're calling in clients that aren't really those that you envisaged. So getting clear on your special take on how you bring transformation for your clients. And having that unique and stand out proposition that differentiates yourself from others. And it doesn't have to be 180 degree differentiation, it could be such a small degree of differentiation. But if that's your personality, and your you know, kidney and you'd like to do things in a particularly reverent way, you are going to call it in people that you're meant to work with. And there's so many other examples. But yeah, that's what bothers me.
Becca 31:26
Yeah, I think it's really important in this conversation to to, to bring up the idea of, if you are constantly basing your messaging or your programme on somebody else, that means you're always looking for an example. And what happens when the example isn't there anymore, and you haven't done the work to figure out what comes next. I feel like a lot of people kind of get into that trend, whether they know it or not. And I have done this too, I think it's a very common thing, you see an example of success, you mirror and until you know better or you can figure out how to do differently or do better. And I think it is a natural part of business. But that was the experience that I had when I got into coaching. Because I had a similar experience, I had a great coach who was really strong, and I had all these ideas. And when I step back and look at what I put together, I was like, that's not my offer. That's her offer. And I thought it was different and unique. And all of these things, and I scrapped my entire first coaching offer, rewrote it and did something totally different. Because at the end of the day, it wasn't my original idea. But also, when I wanted to start changing it, I had this sense of panic of like, what do I do, I don't have an example of this. I don't know how to do this, because it hasn't been done. And that's a really dangerous place to put yourself in. So I kind of had to do the same thing that you've been talking about this whole episode of going back of why am I different? What do I believe? What do I stand for? What do we stand against? And how do I put all of that into this new thing that doesn't have an example. And that's okay.
Jo Ingram 33:03
Oh my gosh, so, so true. And one of the things that I realised quite early on, and people being negatively affected by actually copying others and being like a cookie cutter coach, is that actually, when they show up to sell the energy is really key. You know, it's like, oh, I'm feeling that sense of imposter syndrome, or just like, a fear of judgement, whatever it might be, that makes me think you know what, I just feel uncomfortable in the sales process. But actually, once you get that clarity, and you really lean into your uniqueness and authenticity, you actually find and this is something that I deeply encourage and coach people into is find a mission. And mission is a really powerful word. Mission, for me is about actually getting a sense of massive purpose that you're incredibly impassioned about. And actually, once you get that energy behind what you teach, selling isn't a matter of taking money selling is a matter of just showing your passion for what you do to such an extent that people are happy and keen and filling up your DNS to pay you to help them get the result that you are so impassioned to create for others. So it's about really knowing who you are and talking with that level of decisiveness and passion and, you know, an emphatic this. Yeah, that's the word. Being in fat word. It's like, I have been accused of being emphatic by people in the past. But I think that to some degree, we all need to feel really, really sure that what we're doing is the right thing, and we just want to bring it out in the world and serve. And from that energy from that serving energy. We can actually create businesses that don't rely on sales that feel misaligned or nasty sales tactics that put urgency or just aren't necessary. They're like those bro marketing kind of pushy things that, you know, they, there's some merit in them. But you don't have to rely on really doing things that against your your your integrity, if you're on a mission, you have a purpose and your head serve. But by the way, please don't misunderstand me, we're absolutely here to make income to, I think it's really important that you know, as heart centred coaches, we don't ignore the fact that we can be unapologetic about making money in our businesses. Because as long as we're getting results, you know, we're paid to create an outcome or results for our clients. And that's why we show up. And amazingly, in this industry, there's opportunities to be paid really well to do it, and to live a life of you know, our dreams, and to be able to have that freedom in our daily routine. And that's oftentimes what we help others create to. So I see it as it's just such a wonderful industry to work in, I kept myself really blessed actually, particularly, you know, going back only a couple of years now to when I was working in corporate, and you know, how I felt every day to now, it's really a world apart.
Becca 36:10
And is, okay, on that note, if you are listening, and you're curious about how to get started on all of this, and how to shift your messaging to feel a little bit more personal. I know Joe has a freebie for you guys, a messaging checklist. And so do you want to tell them a little bit about how to find that and about the freebie?
Jo Ingram 36:35
Absolutely. So grab the messaging checklist, it's going to teach you how to attract a steady flow of ideal coaching clients through Magnetic Messaging, I go into the detail of the three key ways plus a secret little bonus way that you can do it too. And I'm going to give Becker the link and she could pop it in you can you put that in the show notes that way? Yes, of course. Amazing. So you can also find me on Instagram and just DM me and ask me for it. Otherwise, you can find me at I am Joe dot Ingram.
Becca 37:09
Perfect. Well, Joe, thank you so much for coming on. I feel like you guys can't see this. But this is the page full of notes that I have from our conversation. And I learned so much from speaking with you today. And I know that our listeners did as well. So I appreciate your time and your expertise.
Jo Ingram 37:27
Oh, it's been so much fun. Thanks so much Becker.
Becca 37:29
There are so many points from this conversation that I know that I needed to hear when I first started my business. The first among them is clarity causes competence. And it is so incredibly true. The further I get into my business, the more I have recognised this. The other thing that I loved from this conversation was her journal prompt and I'm not a huge fan of journaling. But asking yourself what is going right for me right now. Wow, that is powerful, whether you journal or talk to yourself in the mirror or just think in your head on a walk. What an incredible conversation to have with yourself regularly to really understand your unique perspective and abilities and be able to talk about what you do from that energetic place of power. So I hope that you enjoyed this episode. I know that I enjoyed the conversation wholeheartedly. If you have any thoughts on this episode and want to send me or Joe a DM on Instagram, our handles will be linked in the show notes. Please reach out. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. All right. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. As always, if you resonated with this conversation, if you would like to pass it along to a friend, I will be endlessly grateful. And if you want to subscribe or leave a review as well. That would make my day it would make my week if we're being honest. Until next week, this was Probably Bothered
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