EP 30: Impact, ideation, and the incredible opportunity to choose that entrepreneurs hold
What does it mean to create an impact-based business outside of nonprofit status? I speak with Andrena today all about the ways that business owners (yes, even solopreneurs!) can lead with impact, and creatively. We also have an incredible chat about being a visionary as an entrepreneur and the loneliness that comes with that.
Andrena’s Bio
Andrena Sawyer is an author, consultant, strategist, and nonprofit founder whose background includes surviving the civil war in Sierra Leone. Her authenticity and battle-tested principles inspire audiences to embrace their past, own their present and maximize their future.
Andrena Sawyer is the President of P.E.R.K. Consulting, an advisory firm for small to mid-sized nonprofits and businesses, and the Founder of MCWEN—a faith-based network for women of color entrepreneurs. Originally from Freetown, Sierra Leone, she and her family moved to the United States when she was nine years old due to a civil war that left thousands dead and untold numbers maimed and displaced. She now credits her family's move during the war for her interest in human triumph and perseverance. She has since actively worked to mobilize and empower others.
For her work with nonprofits and small businesses, she has received numerous awards including the Startup Africa Woman Entrepreneur of the Year award, The Black Business Review’s 40 Under 40, The International Alliance for Women World of Difference 100 Award, the Women-Owned Small Business Award by the Associated Black Charities, and the Hope for Africa Leadership in Community Development Award. In addition to her work with entrepreneurs and nonprofits, she is the author of several books, including: The Misadventures of a New Entrepreneur: 5 Things They Won’t Teach You in Business School.
Connect with Andrena
Episode Transcript
Becca 0:05
Welcome to Probably Bothered the podcast that cuts through online business man's, so that you can redefine your version of success. Because I believe if you aren't a little bit bothered, you probably aren't paying attention.
We're all out here trying to build a business that is sustainable, a business that then meets our life that supports our life. And I don't just mean revenue I mean in terms of time to. But have you asked yourself recently, how you can create an impactful business, a business that makes a difference. And inherently in serving others. We all do this.
But I'm really excited for the conversation today with Andrena Sawyer. She is a consultant, a strategist, and a nonprofit founder who has created endless opportunities to help lift up women in business. And most of her consulting work is on the nonprofit side. And we have a really great conversation about how businesses, including solo entrepreneurs, can intentionally create impact in their business.
So stay tuned for this episode, because I learned a lot from her. And I know you will, too. This conversation is a little bit different than the ones that I typically have on Probably Bothered, because our guests and Drina is a nonprofit expert. But I don't want you guys to tune out because I know that we don't have a lot of nonprofits in the audience, which is fine. But at its core, nonprofits are a business. And that's something I'm super passionate about.
This is a long intro, Andrena, I'm sorry. What I didn't tell you is I have a history and nonprofit. So I'm I'm we're here. We're right here. And we're going to have a great conversation about this today. But I'm super excited to hear about the work that you are doing in creating profitable businesses and increasing opportunities through a nonprofit lens for women in business. So welcome to Probably Bothered,
Andrena Sawyer 2:24
thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be on and to have this conversation. So my passion is nonprofit, you know, I've spent a lot of my life I started my first nonprofit when I was 15. So that's the majority of my life and nonprofit work. And then 11 years ago, I had this crazy idea to quit my job to become a consultant for nonprofits. I was working this, you know, steady job, local government had, you know, stability. And then all of a sudden, I said, I think I want to own my own business like a maniac. And what better way to own my own business and to do what I love doing, which is to help other people. And so I started a company called Park consulting, where we do strategic planning and capacity-building support.
Fast forward to seven years later, I was still not satisfied, you know, my business was doing well. But I said, I'm helping other people build sustainable businesses, you know, they're scaling even well beyond where I was as a sole proprietor, I think I want to start my own nonprofit. And so I started McLaren, which is an initiative for women who want to start their own businesses. And that's been about four or five years up and running. So now I do consulting full time, and I run a nonprofit full time.
Becca 3:40
That's incredible. What I love about your story, and I've listened to you speak on a few podcast episodes. So let me be the expert on your story here. What I love about your story is that you, you have pivoted, and you own those pivots.
And I think a lot of times we are kind of fed the narrative that you have to be consistent and consistency wins. And if you're changing your mind all the time, people don't really know what you do or why they should come to you. Yeah, and so seeing those points where you took like a hard ride or hard left, and just owned it. That's something that I really enjoy about your story. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what your thoughts were in those moments of change.
Andrena Sawyer 4:29
Yeah, I appreciate that. So I think there's a part of me that's maybe it's personality temperament that's not very like risk averse. Like, I'm okay with this. Yeah. So when I quit my job, that was probably the first hard turn that I did to start my business. And at the time, I'm gonna age myself a little bit. I was, you know, 25 and literally the conversation I had in my head was it's kind of a now or never, I'm young, minimal responsibilities. Mike Getting these opportunities, and I could stay at this job and really enjoy it, you know, there was nothing wrong with the job, or just take this leap of faith time myself and say, we'll give myself a year.
And if I fail, I fail, and I tuck my tail between my legs and I come running back, you know, hopefully it works out. But the other times that I've pivoted, it's been the same kind of story where it's like, I'm either going to do this thing that I'm extremely passionate about, almost restless about, because that's how like, you know, that's how deeply I feel about the subject matter. I'm going to try it. And if I fail, I fail.
Luckily, a lot of it has worked out. Not not, it hasn't worked out smoothly, the whole time. But ultimately, you know, things kind of work out. And I think, unfortunately, that's what fuels you know, the pivots that come after it's like, every time I try something, and it happens to just work out, I'm like, Okay, I'll try it again. So knock on wood, I'm hoping I don't hit that wall. That's completely scares me and says, don't take any more risk. Don't do that anymore. But I think that's what life is about. I think it's about, you know, trying out things not staying in the lane, not the inbox, then.
Becca 6:16
Well, and it's one of the things that's so beautiful about having your own business, too, is that there are rules, but like, Are there rules, I don't think that there really, truly are, at the end of the day, there's so many opportunities for us to explore new avenues or alter our messaging or alter offers and things of that nature. So who says we can't have these ideas and, and fully chase them?
Andrena Sawyer 6:43
Yeah, that's so good. I was having a conversation with someone. And they kept referring to me as a creative. And I kept telling them, I'm not a creative, like, I'm so not a creative. And ultimately, what they were trying to say was they think every entrepreneur is a creative, because we get to just create things and do things.
And sometimes the rest of the world doesn't see what we're doing and what we're trying to create and build, but we see it. And it's just like, as a business owner, it's just something that's kind of inherent in us where we're like, I see this thing, and I'm gonna try it. And then maybe six years later, I'm gonna try something else. I think I don't know what it is. That's about entrepreneurship that just really kind of sets us up for that kind of life.
Becca 7:32
I don't know, either. But I feel like everybody listening is resonating with this conversation right now. And I would, I would say that's like 100% success. I'm a really big fan of making up statistics on my podcast. So it's like, I love the recurring joke. But it's definitely 100%. So I also one of the things that I heard you mention, and I also heard you talk about on another podcast episode, and I was so intrigued by this conversation.
So I'm bringing it in, even though the listeners don't know what's about to them. But I heard you talk about this idea of having a new thought, a new idea, a new something that you want to chase, and the people in your life not understanding. Yeah. And the like the inherent loneliness that comes with having this thing. Yeah, no one really gets Yeah. So we'd love to just pass the mic to you and hear you kind of talk about that concept. And then I'm sure I'll have more questions.
Andrena Sawyer 8:37
So there's this meme on social media that I used to see floating around a lot. And it says, First, they laugh at you, then they asked you how you did it. Right. And I feel like that's such a like perfect summary of what the entrepreneurship journey is, where you feel like a weirdo, for lack of a better word, when you're starting. Because you you're seeing the fruition of something that hasn't even started yet. Like it's not even tangible to anybody else.
And so that's one part of the process that makes you seem insane. Because you're seeing something like having an invisible friend, that's not there, then the next part of it is you try to convince people to have this buy in to this thing that you believe in. But they're looking through these critical lenses where they're like, how are you going to make money? That doesn't make sense.
And a lot of times, it's like, they don't even have, like the full perspective. They don't have the experience. They don't have the expertise to track with you as you're trying to explain what it is that you're building. But we put so much like hope in what they're saying. And so when when there's a disconnect there that amplifies the loneliness, you know, it's like the loneliness of starting and the loneliness of the lack of resources and the scarcity of things and the timing and all of that, and then it's amplified by the fact that nobody else The state of Zoo, like very little people very well understand.
Becca 10:04
And sometimes and this has been not to I'm sorry, I interrupted you. But in my experience, sometimes that lack of understanding, I have internalised as doubt that other people have doubted my ideas. And I don't obviously think that that's what they have meant. And it hasn't been like an active. That's a terrible idea. Don't do it. Yeah. But when it doesn't click when you have this, like excitement, and you're like, I want to do this thing. And people in your life are like, why?
Andrena Sawyer 10:30
Yeah. And you know what, I came to the realisation one day where I was like, it's their job to ask why? You know, because a lot of it did make me doubtful, and it made me scared. I was very insecure. When I started those first few years were hard, because Pete, that was the default question. Why, how? And sometimes I didn't have the answers.
You know, like, I couldn't fully explained what my gut was telling me about this idea. I remember having a situation with my dad, when he was asking me legitimately, like, honest questions like, how are you going to pay for your bills? What about health insurance, you know, all the things that come with. And I was so like, angry at him, because I thought he was being overly critical.
And I just said, you're supposed to be on my side you're supposed to support me is what I was thinking in my head. And he just was trying to communicate that it's not a lack of support. He was giving me some constructive feedback, kind of navigating that, like, I was resentful for a little bit, because it was bad enough that Strangers didn't believe and that was like, my family didn't believe it. It just is lonely.
And it's hard to explain. And what I found is, when you start getting that traction, and you start showing some results, then all of a sudden, you know, people support you. But it's because they see that you're okay. You know what I mean? Like, it's because they see, okay, she they've seen the proof. Yeah, then she's not completely crazy. Like there's a method to the madness. I think
Becca 12:01
it must be. This is a loosely characterised. statement, I think it must be a male thing. Because my husband is the same way. If I bring up a new thought, or a new idea that I'm like, I'm gonna do this in my business. He's like, why would you want to do that? What's your plan for doing that? Yeah. And it's, it's his, it's his version of processing. Right? And, and like, once he has the full picture, he's like, yeah, you can do it sounds great. I'm on board. But like, I don't know, it took me a long time to adjust from that, that first question of like, why? Yeah. Because because it's not doubt it's support. It's just the process that they have to go through to, to catch up to you,
Andrena Sawyer 12:40
you know, what's funny, like, in my role as a consultant, that's what I do to people. I asked them why how, what do you know, how do these two pieces fit? But I got so angry when other people wouldn't do it. Me
Becca 12:54
to a new perspective on that, now
Andrena Sawyer 12:56
I do I have a little more gracious, a little more patient, because, oh, maybe part of it is they want me to talk it through, they want me to process as well. But initially, I was like, this is a lot of criticism. Like I need this energy in my life right now.
Becca 13:14
So I feel like the lesson learned seeing this, this question of why from both perspectives is that first of all, people aren't doubting you. But second of all, maybe it's that necessary step of because I think sometimes internally, we get these ideas, we get these thoughts, and we're like, Well, I'm gonna go do this. Yeah, that noise probably sounds terrible. In everyone's earphone so I'm sorry, if you're listening.
But, but do we ever stop and ask ourselves? Why? What's the intention behind this? Why do I feel like this is the path that I need to take? Because I know for me personally, a lot of what I do in my business, it's a gut feel. I'm not I'm not like a person that processes my thoughts. I just, no, I didn't. That's the way my brain works. It's like, this is the only option that I can take, because it's right. And I know that it's right, even if I don't know why it's right.
Andrena Sawyer 14:05
Yeah, no, I'm the same way. I'm the same exact way where I just there's something about like, your gut, your intuition, whatever you want to call it, that it's like, I have to trust that because some things are visualised. And they're not reality yet.
And so the only thing that's kind of guiding me is this vision and this gut feeling that it's going to work out. You know, like, there's this gap that all of us as entrepreneurs have to travel was like the vision and then the manifestation of the vision. And a lot of times we don't have the tools or resources, but it's that gut that leads us to align those pieces. So I'm the same exact way. Wow them exactly.
Becca 14:44
So there's a loose connection to where I'm taking this conversation. So I'm going to try and drive for you along with me. But I'm as I'm thinking of this idea of having a vision for your business and we've talked about it in the frame of changing direction. In a business that exists, but also in the sense of a business that has yet to been to be created, yeah, this is where my brain is going.
So one of the things that I noticed about you and what you have created is you have this corporate social responsibility element to your business. And I'm going to pause and like loosely explain corporate social responsibility, if you guys are listening in aren't familiar with it. It's basically the idea that companies have a responsibility to, to do good things, essentially, maybe not a responsibility, but an avenue for them to do good things. A lot of times that looks like partnering with nonprofits, giving their employees volunteer opportunities, working on the sustainability or the greening of what they do.
This is very loose, because this is not the point of the conversation. But just to make sure everyone's on the same page. And feel free to add to the definition, too, if you want. But for me, as somebody whose background is in nonprofit, and in corporate social responsibility, and then also, I'm sorry, this is a long question, but stick with me.
Andrena Sawyer 16:07
Stick with me permission, though. Well, thank
Becca 16:09
you. So I have had conversations with other entrepreneurs, that they started a business to do good because they had spent their careers in corporations where they didn't really feel like they were doing good for the people who needed it most. And so I notice this is this is all the things to see, when I told you that my thoughts go that fast.
Things I thought, and that's what second, what I noticed, of course, is that you have this corporate social responsibility arm to your business. So as a new business owner, or somebody who is figuring things out, and you want to give back, how do you recommend that solopreneurs are able to make an impactful choice with their business or kind of bring that thought process in when they're not a huge corporation?
Andrena Sawyer 16:58
Yeah. And this is the thing, I am not a huge corporation, right now, in a lot of ways, even though it's been 11 years, I still function as a startup thing. There's something about that culture that's very just appealing to me. But to your question, I think there are two parts of this right? I think the first part about it, is knowing what you're passionate about, right? And giving yourself permission to incorporate that passion and allowing it to be a passion, not just for profit sake, like so like indoors, like do things, experiment with that passion, in a way that brings you fulfilment, does greater good for everyone else, and you don't have to worry about necessarily monetizing your passion.
Now some of us get really lucky and we can monetize our passion. But I will, I'll tell you an example of what I mean. And the second part, my advices, to someone who's starting is to allow your creativity to flow. So when I started, I'm a immigrant from Sierra Leone, Freetown, Sierra Leone, went to Howard University for undergrad, when I got to Howard University, I was told that I was not eligible for financial aid, because I wasn't a US citizen at the time. So long story short, I really struggled through college, right, so I was on the Dean's List all four years, and I was able to get like partial scholarships from different departments. And that's how I paid for college.
So when I started my consulting practice, I started the next gen scholarship. And it was $1,000 a year to an immigrant student that wanted to get you know, higher education. And, you know, I thought about it in the grand scheme of things $1,000 When you're paying $30,000, tuition might not be a huge deal. But it might take care of your books for semester. And so part of my creativity, you know, to kind of connect the dots here was figuring out like, how do I make an impact in this small way, that was still aligned with like my business goals, which was to help organisations and help nonprofits and help people, but still kind of indulge this passion, and not like limit this and think it's something that I had to do outside of consulting, like, so my company decided that we will just sponsor our student $1,000 a year.
And so that, you know, that's my example, I was a solopreneur when I started to do that, it wasn't something that was going to be a huge burden for me, because I wasn't struggling, you know, startup entrepreneur, but I knew over the course of the year to a fundraising event or through donations that I solicited from even my clients or just profits, you know, when it was time to do our books, we could afford that. So it looks different for everyone, but tap into that creativity and figure out like what is my passion and how can I do it? Without feeling like I have to profit from it. Yeah, just out of the goodness of my heart. Absolutely.
Becca 19:53
And it could be the donation of your time for your, your expertise as well. No matter or what type of business that you've created. But I love the way that you brought your own personal story into the decision that you had made to help somebody else achieve higher education. So I think we see a lot of examples of these really big, sweeping gestures, right, especially from corporations, but even sometimes from entrepreneurs who are a little bit further along in their journey than we might find ourselves.
Yeah. And so I love the advice to just get creative and start from what you can do. And of course, you never want to do this at the expense of being able to make a profit or put food on your own table. And those sorts of considerations had to be to be made, but to be able to do what you can when you can absolutely, it's like the simplest definition. And I
Andrena Sawyer 20:51
love that you even gave that example of not having it be financial. I've seen companies where as a team, they might do like March of Dimes, or AIDS Walk or you know, serve together on like on a Saturday, you know, where they just go to the soup kitchen or something like that. I've seen organisations for profit businesses do that. So sometimes it is just our time. And the interesting thing about business and creativity is even though you're doing it selflessly, it can become part of your brand story, when you are, you know, very philanthropic and community minded and you give back and that's what your company is known for. So either way, it's like a win win. Yeah,
Becca 21:36
absolutely. So I know there are a number of people in the audience who are business owners, not really nonprofits, so to speak, or they might not know a lot about that space. So I'd love to just share a little bit about nonprofit with them. Because whether you are interested in working with one through your business, or starting one of your own, I think there are a few misconceptions, namely, to summarise with a lot of hyperbole that nonprofits aren't a business. So I'd love to hear your take on kind of creating a healthy nonprofit and working with them in a way that makes sense.
Andrena Sawyer 22:16
Yeah, no, that's all good. That's actually one of the more common questions I get is like, how do you run a nonprofit? And my answer to that is always you treat your nonprofit as if it is a for profit, because it literally has all the elements. And really, the main difference is why you exist. So nonprofits exists to do good for the community or to do good for in a greater sense for profits exists for profit. But all of the other elements like the business development processes, your capacity building, and strategic planning processes.
Those are the same, takes money to run a nonprofit takes when you run a business takes staff takes capacity, all of those things. So that's the first thing, the first misconception we have to clear up. The second misconception is that people think that if you go into nonprofit, you're bound to be like, destitute and poor. As part of it to the world. And while most people I think, who go into nonprofit aren't kind of like, like they have that posture of service.
Yeah, like we don't go into it for the money. But there is a lot of money in nonprofit. It turns out, though, that a lot of that money is going to be like public dollars, as opposed to money that you generate for yourself. One of the more interesting things was COVID. Right? So I mean, outside of it being the pandemic, like for nonprofits, because there was so much money that was available for nonprofits. And we're talking like five figure six figure grants, that usually are very strict and how, you know, funders award these grants, all of a sudden, it became emergency money, just for for profits.
So I was getting clients who were saying, you know, look, I'm really interested in trying to figure out how I'm gonna sustain myself, because I really want to do good. I want to help people over this period. And we will do a simple application. And before you know what they were getting awarded these funds. And I'm always like, ethically right, I had a little dilemma where I was like, Where's all this money coming from?
Because after working with nonprofits for so many years, funding is a recurring issue. And usually funders are going to say you have to fill out this 30 page application. There are reporting requirements that are intimidating. You have to make sure you're in good standing with the state and with the IRS. There are all these restrictions. But what COVID Definitely come from for me and what I've been trying to tell people for forever, is that there's money out there in nonprofit, you just have to know how to look for it and you just have to make sure that your organisation is positioned to receive it. Because it's out there.
Becca 24:59
I Absolutely. And also, the thing that I heard in that story is how much paperwork and process can slow down the getting the money to the people who need it, who are able to do great things with it.
Andrena Sawyer 25:14
Yep, yep. And that's one of the more intimidating parts of funding for nonprofits. Because it's not a there's not a scarcity of dollars. It's just I think there's a, there's a lot of misinforming information, and a lot of like, disconnect between the organisations that really need it. And the funders, unfortunately, I think a lot of large corporations, large nonprofits, that have access to grant writers and, you know, private search engines and things like that, like databases and listservs, they know where the money is, right? And but they also have these robust, like donor engagement strategies, these huge special events that are all bringing in money, because every nonprofit should have several streams of revenue, right.
But then you have the small organisations that are doing grassroots work. And because they can't afford an in house grant writer, you have the executive director applying for this 30 Page Grant who can take two to three months, and then you have a turnaround of maybe six months from the time the application is approved to actually receiving the money. And all of that is just overwhelming and intimidating for a lot of nonprofit leaders. Yeah, the money is there, though.
Becca 26:25
So on the side of the conversation of if you are an individual or business owner, who wants to start working with a nonprofit in some way, whether it's volunteering, or donating a portion of your revenue, or there are so many ways for us to partner, even if you're not at the point where you want to create one, but you want to kind of loop into this in between of they're already good people doing good work. So how do you support them to do it? How do you as an individual, understand nonprofits and which one is the right one to work with?
And the reason I'm asking this question, is because I think that there are a lot of misconceptions about nonprofits specifically about the like, overhead number. And so, but if you don't have the background, if you don't have the experience and the expertise to essentially audit a nonprofit to make sure it's one that you feel comfortable partnering with, yeah. How do you go about that process?
Andrena Sawyer 27:29
Yeah. So those people, I would say, the benefit of being nonprofit or tax exempt, is that the IRS says you have to disclose everything, right like to image your your household my much higher standard of transparency than for profits. So like, if you go to the IRS website, you can look up a nonprofit, if it's legitimate, you can look up their 990, which is their annual tax form, right. And through that, you'll get to see what people are making where their funding is coming from.
But then there are also a couple of other reputable platforms that are tracking nonprofits to make sure that they're being transparent. So you have Charity Navigator, for example. And GuideStar. GuideStar is like one of my favourite platforms, because you can see the history, and they actually will rate a nonprofit based on their performance and transparency, I think it's like gold, silver in the third category was probably platinum, I don't assume but they'll rate the organisation based on that, you know, their performance and transparency.
So to the person who's looking to get some information, just do some research, and nonprofits to get be tax exempt, we have to disclose everything. If you have one that's really organised nine times out of 10, they'll probably also have an annual report that's public records on their website or via newsletter or something. So you can always just connect with them on social media on your website, to make sure that you have access to those types of reports as well. I think that's the best way to start. If you're looking to volunteer another one of my favourite platforms is Volunteer Match.
A lot of my clients who can't afford staff are strictly volunteer and they get all of their team members from Volunteer Match, even the nonprofit that I'm working with now, we have two in house volunteers that are have been with us for a little bit. And these are not just intermittent volunteers who do registration at an event, but we have people who do social media, because they have five hours a week that they're willing to just support a nonprofit with 10 hours a week, retired people, graduate students who are looking for credit for a class.
So there are so many ways to like research an organisation beyond just maybe social media and website, but you have to do the research and then plug in to them. Yeah, and if you're thinking about getting Intel nonprofit, one resource I recommend is the foundation centre. Like they offer classes from how to register to how to write a grant to how to build a volunteer programme. Yeah, and it's, you know, nationally known. So we're held to a high standards, I would say take advantage in research organisations.
Becca 30:21
And that's the incredible thing is that all the information is out there. And it's just like anything if you're, if you're willing to spend a little bit of time and uncover the things that you're looking for. But that would be my recommendation, I would say, I think there are, there are things that you can uncover about organisations that a 20 minute Google search will get you. And then you feel a lot more comfortable kind of tying your name and your company to that organisation. Because you know, how they're spending money, what they're doing, what their mission and the impact that they have.
Andrena Sawyer 30:58
Yep, Yep, absolutely. And it's even from the registration process, it looks different when a for profit registers, their state documents, and you know, there's IRS EIN, tax ID, all of that. But when you are a nonprofit, you have to apply for what's called a 1023. And this is essentially you saying to the IRS, look, if at any point you want to audit, if at any point, you want to just disclose any of my information, for the benefit of this tax exemption that you're offering me, I will allow the public to own me, so to speak, you know, like I'm at the mercy of the public, because that's who's funding me, and that's who's supporting me. Those are the IRS words. That's what I think it says it's like, we're at your mercy, because you're giving us this great big benefit of getting these exemptions. Yeah, you know, when it's tax tax time,
Becca 31:53
is it like how I make up statistics you make up with the IRS?
Andrena Sawyer 32:00
And hopefully no IRS agents on this thing?
Becca 32:03
It's a paraphrase. Oh, man, okay. Well, I think we're at the point in the episode where I asked my favourite question, which is what bothers you? What would you like to see in this space, whether it's for profit, nonprofit, change for the better?
Andrena Sawyer 32:23
Fairness, fairness? Yeah, I attended a workshop last night, a webinar on mental health and mental, yeah, mental health awareness. And she had us write down, like, what makes you angry, and I immediately wrote injustice. And I think she was expecting me to go really deep and talk about, like, some serious issues. And the first thing that came to mind was when I was a kid at the lunch table, and people would bully kids. And I'm like, whether it's that or whether it's something really, really, you know, egregious, like I just hate people being unfairly treated.
Becca 32:57
Absolutely. And I'm sure that you, you, you can expand on this a lot more with the work that you do with your nonprofit as well. But that's one of the things that I have noticed in this space, too, is that a lot of times we see these really big successes, and we don't know like the starting place, we don't know where that person is starting from. And it's not something that's always really talked about. And so I think along the lines of fairness, what what that means to me is like, obviously, the world is never going to be a place where everyone has the exact same house the exact same amount of money, like that is not the world. That's not the world. That's not the way that the world works.
Yeah, but, but being able to understand and see yourself in the examples that are out there, of people who come from a similar place that you do, and I don't like how I'm going with this, because I don't mean that, like, if you come from a certain place, everyone's going to have the same outcome. That's not what I'm trying to say either. But, but I'm
Andrena Sawyer 34:05
tracking with you. And I agree. Yeah. It's just not it's just not life. Today. It's not life in this economy. And not even just on this side of the world. It's just human nature for us not to all get along and to get the same things. We don't all have the same work ethic. I think that that's one issue but it's another to just like maliciously just go after people like I literally in my mind, I remember an incident at lunch in junior high school where it's like this one kid was being picked on all the time and not allowed to sit at the table. And I'm just like I'm so you know, so yes, there are high level you know, for injustice, but even at that level was just so you're mean.
Becca 34:51
So, I guess I guess that's really the takeaway from the conversation is take a second if you're listening to look around Aren't you and and really, really notice these things, right? Whether it's whether it's just the kid bully at the not just I don't want to diminish that experience, whether it's the kid bully at the lunch table, or it's something else that you're noticing and and figure out how within your scope of comfort and safety what you're willing to do to right that wrong.
Andrena Sawyer 35:24
Absolutely. I agree. I agree. Yeah. And if not, right, it just do better.
Becca 35:30
Yeah. Change it for the for the better the next time. Yeah. All right. Wow. On that note, I know that you have a really great consultation call that you wanted to chat about. And if you could tell everyone where they can find you online and all that good stuff.
Andrena Sawyer 35:48
Sure. So our main website is perk consulting.net. And then my personal website is Andrina sawyer.com. But if you go to Park consulting.net, we do offer a free 30 minute consultation. So anyone that's interested in starting a nonprofit, or maybe talking about your for profit idea, we'd love to help with that, specifically with strategic planning and capacity building services.
Becca 36:14
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Andrena, for coming on, probably bothered today and sharing all of your insight and your expertise. And of course, your time.
Andrena Sawyer 36:23
Thank you for having me. Wow,
Becca 36:26
the conversation that we had about the gap that that entrepreneurs face between the vision that you have and the vision manifesting. And all of those feelings of loneliness and doubt that come with it. I know that that resonated with me. And those are definitely feelings that I have had and conversations that I have had as well. And I'm just left thinking after this episode. How can we as entrepreneurs, better understand that gap, and leverage it to support each other through this journey that we're all on? I am curious to hear your thoughts on this episode.
And I know Andrena is too so her Instagram is in the Episode Notes. Feel free to reach out to either of us with your thoughts. I can't wait to hear them. Alright, thank you so much for listening to this episode. As always, if you resonated with this conversation, if you would like to pass it along to a friend, I would be endlessly grateful. And if you want to subscribe or leave a review as well. That would make my day it would make my week if we're being honest. Until next week. This was Probably Bothered
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