ep 23: collabs are the new networking… and that’s a good thing
How do you feel when I say… collab?
How about when I say… networking?
The two words evoke a totally different feeling, but are so similar at their core! This conversation spanned the gamut from creating a business that was totally unique to how important education and messaging is when finding your audience and networking. My favorite part comes at the end, when Sara and I give you a recipe for being a stellar collab partner (aka… a great networker!) Make sure you stay tuned because you don’t want to miss it.
Sara’s Bio
Sara is a master connector. She’s so good at it, she turned it into a business when founding the District Bliss community. As an extrovert living in a work-from-home world, she’s found ways to leverage connections and continue to expand her multiple businesses, even during the pandemic. Oh, and she’s a podcaster x2!
Sara is the host of The Wedding Dish, where you’ll hear stories about love and entrepreneurship, and the co-host of Laughing with Gingers, where she chuckles with Kristina Kury and plays games. She loves lattes, spontaneity, laughing loudly, her funny Frenchie, and traveling.
Sara’s outreach note:
“Hey! We "matched" [[on podmatch, a guest/host service we both use]] and your show sounds awesome! I love that you're not about that hustle culture. It's so killer and shouldn't be a thing in our society - so, I'm glad you're breaking the system!
I am the founder and CEO of District Bliss (districtbliss.com) and Photos from the Harty (photosfromtheharty.com).
I started District Bliss when I went full time as a photographer and wanted to expand my network; unfortunately, a lot of people in the same field saw me as competition, but I wanted to be able to refer out any clients I couldn't take on or who weren't the right fit for my business (because that's part of client care, too). So, I started District Bliss in 2014 as a networking organization where the goal is to support one another while building our businesses! It was immediately successful!
I love to talk about networking - from why bother to best practices (online and in-person) to nurturing your new contacts and converting them into connections that deliver time and time again.
If that sounds interesting to you, I'd be happy to share with your audience!
Hope you're having a great *long* weekend if you're in the States!
-SA”
Here’s what is so great: She led with letting me know she had done some research, and appreciated the goal of my show. She introduced her area of expertise and made sure I knew her goal was to be audience-focused. She also said, “if that sounds interesting to you…” Which is a small but appreciated detail as a host. Sara knows that the vibe has to fit the guest and the host to have a great episode!
The only thing I would’ve changed in this outreach is including the fact that she had already listened to a few episodes! After I asked if that was the case, this is what she said:
“I have listened to a few episodes! I reached out after you were interviewing someone who had an Australian accent, I believe, about social media, taking action, not worrying about it when you try something and it doesn't work out, and the importance of trying new things. Her name is escaping me right now, but she's a rockstar, too!
It's funny - our interview style is really similar! I love it!”
I hope it helps to see a real-life example of a podcast/collab outreach!
Connect with Sara
District Bliss
@districtblissevents
@theweddingdishpodcast
Want to start reaching out to podcast hosts? I use Podmatch and Matchmaker.fm to find awesome guests!
*episode notes contain affiliate links
Episode Transcript
Becca 0:05
Welcome to Probably Bothered the podcast that cuts through online business man's so that you can redefine your version of success. Because I believe if you aren't a little bit bothered, you probably aren't paying attention.
How do you feel about collabs? Now, what if I asked you how you feel about networking? Did those two things evoke two different emotions? What if we were to start talking about how they're the same thing. And both of those things, benefit your business in ways that you might not even imagine?
Today's conversation with Sara is all about collaboration, networking, whatever you want to call it, to feel most comfortable with the idea of making connections with other people in this space. We talked so much about how to shift your mindset around collaborations, and how she does just that in her business District Bliss. We also talk about what makes the perfect collaboration.
Stay tuned for the end of this episode, because we give you the exact recipe. I'm going to stop here so that it didn't make this episode longer than it needs to be. Because it is on the lengthy side, but it is full of such good stuff. So stay tuned. And let's roll the episode.
On today's episode, I am speaking with Sara and Sara has created a career to we would call it a career out of connecting with people. And I'm so excited to have this conversation because we'll get into this, I'm sure and sometime in the episode, but one of the things that has benefited me the most in my business is connections and referral sources. And I don't think that we talk about it enough. So Sara, I'm so excited to have you on the show today so that we can dive into the state of connecting with others.
Sara 2:08
I love it. And thank you, Becca, for having me on probably bothered. I love your show. I love that you always like bring on these great people that you really just want to elevate their businesses and like elevate them as guests on your show. So here's just awesome, I appreciate you.
Becca 2:23
Thank you so much. I'm really curious to know in terms of networking, which I feel like sometimes we can have a little bit of a negative connotation with that word, depending maybe the extroverts in the audience are cheering when they hear it. But in terms of networking and making connections with people, how did you decide to build a business? Out of connection?
Sara 2:54
That is a great question. I'm sure you may have heard me say this before if you've listened to me see, but whenever I say let's go to this networking event, it's like I asked people to go sit in traffic with me and they're like, why would I ever want to do that? Like, what about traffic sounds like fun to you. And I'm like, let's go to this networking event. But I am an extrovert and I recognize that not everyone is an extrovert and that most people it is anxiety-provoking to go not know someone and try to like break into a circle that's closed off. But that isn't what you asked me yet. So I digress.
I actually started District Bliss in a very strange way. So my background is actually in education. I was a high school teacher. And on the set in the summers, I was a wedding photographer. And when I was breaking up a fight verbally the in the hallway of my school, I was attacked by student and he permanently killed one of the nerves in my leg, which meant that I could no longer go back to teaching. It also meant that I couldn't go photograph weddings without help. So it was like I kind of it was either like sit home and watch Netflix all day or like, you know, figure something out.
So I started going on these networking events, and I didn't expect to have the anxiety-provoking experience because that's just like not the space I normally live in. But it was like I had so many photographers be like, Oh, you're a photographer, I'm a photographer, I don't need to meet you. And they would turn around and ice me out of the circle and it sucked.
So I got discouraged. But then I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna break this system. So I found it District Bliss so that people had like a fun welcoming place where when they came in, they meet me at the door and when it's a real life in-person event, they meet me at the camera if it's at their desk, but I introduce myself, I find out what their goals are. And then I connect them with someone else that's there.
So I'll say oh, you know what air Orange just came in, she's actually looking for like, Great speaking opportunities about accessibility, and you are looking to host workshops that are really helpful for entrepreneurs. Well, accessibility is really important. So he let me take you over and introduce you to Aaron. So then you already have like a buddy, and you're already part of a circle before it even like it was, you know, so it just it felt good to be able to give that back when I had such a, you know, what could have become a very negative experience, but luckily to not,
Becca 5:30
yeah, so one of the things that I have noticed through your content and other episodes that I've listened to is, it seems and I want to say this properly because networking groups themselves are not a new business. But the way in which you approach networking and your events seems like kind of a complete rewrite of what we have known.
And so that's something that I have struggled with in my business is how do you create something that looks unlike anything else? And what was your approach when you were figuring that out?
Sara 6:09
A lot of it is languaging. And being very clear. First, actually, my second event, because this wasn't intended to be a business initially, our second event we didn't charge yet, because we were like, okay, you know, we're just we want to I wanted to build my network so that I could have people that, you know, if I wanted to co-work with or whatever virtually, or in person, I had the ability to do that it gets you to feel isolated, right, like, yeah, home, it can be like, kind of boring.
So we didn't charge and we had someone show up, who messaged us before. And she was like, Can I bring my products and I was like, we're not an expo, you know, this isn't the kind of event where you like, bring your stuff. And you're like, you know, my business coach would call it dancing monkey where you like, open up your coat, and you're like, here are all my watches, whatever. But I saw I didn't want it to be like that.
And I get you to know, I let her know. And so instead of not bringing her products, she wore her product, which was underwear on the outside of her clothing. No. And it was when I realized my languaging needed to be cleaned. I wouldn't say so. And we started charging, even though it's low cost, at least it eliminates people who think that that's appropriate because those are the, you know, they typically like if you are willing to invest in something, you're a different place in your business.
Even if it's low cost, you know, you're not the kind of person who's wearing underwear on the outside of your clothing. Unless you're like really like spunky, ballsy and it's a cool look. That's what this was.
Becca 7:52
Maybe it's like avant-garde fashion.
Sara 7:55
If that's your jam that's fine. Bring it I'm here for it. But this was like, this was like shapewear. So not a great, not a great look in general. And it was like it took a while for me to figure out that that was what was happening. Meanwhile, that meant that I was staring at this person for a very long time. Awkward all around.
Becca 8:17
Oh, gosh, I can just picture this whole scenario taking place.
Sara 8:21
It was a very, I'm a very like, open accepting person. So the whole thing was just like threw me for a loop. And I was like, How the hell am I supposed to even address this? I of course, very nice. let that person know, you know, this wasn't the way of getting around the rules, and that we aren't necessarily rule-followers here. But we're also not here for that. Yeah.
Becca 8:46
So I'm trying to think because I feel like as new business owners, whether you have a big event like this, that happens or nothing spawns it, and you're just trying to figure out your positioning in the market.
One of the things that a lot of my clients struggle with the most is clearly stating who they're for, who they're not for, and what to expect when you work with them. And really, that's the core of messaging, right? Yeah.
So how did you take that and kind of shape everything into what District Bliss looks like today,
Sara 9:23
I cut out all of the extraneous content, all of the things that I felt like I wanted to tell people but wasn't what they needed to hear or wanted to hear or, you know, like, had any business hearing at all. I didn't need to explain the event it from like my point of view, I needed to say here's what to expect, like four bullet or per five bullet points, you know, not like a whole like five paragraphs of you walk in and we say this and then we do this and you feel like this and then it's this and it.
They don't need all of that. Like they'll get that when they show up and I was trying I was good. seeing too much and people weren't reading it. Our attendance is short, like, we're not reading five paragraphs of something that can be covered in five bullet points. It's just not. It's not a thing.
Becca 10:11
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I have this conversation over and over and over in my business. I think we all as business owners think our messaging is the most important thing.
And all of the words we want to use to describe whatever it is that we do is, it's necessary, and it's needed because it shows our personality and our thought process. But really, if you read it from somebody else's perspective, that shifts quite often,
Sara 10:38
yeah, and it should always be from the other person's perspective because honestly, the other person doesn't care about me. They don't care that I'm like, I'm really excited to meet you.
I mean, I am but like, they don't, they're not like sitting there at home thinking, wow, Sara said she's really excited to meet me, I'm definitely going to that event.
Becca 11:00
And it ranks different, of course, if it isn't like a one-on-one interaction versus the page for the event, of course. But yeah, but I think I think that's, that's actually kind of an interesting conversation, too. Because one of the shifts that I've noticed in this space, and I'll be I'm interested to hear your perspective with networking kind of at its core. But one of the shifts that I've noticed is a long time ago, there was this emphasis on, here's the service I provide, here's how I help you this, this right kind of facts, benefits.
Now, there's a really big emphasis on that piece of personal brand, and people buy from you because of who you are. So in terms of when you're heading to a networking event, or you're making connections, either with a potential client or you know, a potential referral source.
How do you recommend people bring that personal brand and show off who they are when a lot of times you just have a couple of sentences to tell the world about yourself?
Sara 12:03
Yeah, and you know, it's interesting, because I would actually, I wouldn't go in from that point at all in terms of you want to go in asking questions, okay, about the other person. So you want to go in and that will help you learn whether they are your ideal client, right? Like, you ask questions, what are their goals? Why did they come to this event? Who are they hoping to meet?
Like, what are they working on it also, people are much more comfortable talking about themselves, but then you also don't have to be the one who's memorized your elevator pitch and worried about like making a mistake. So there are a couple of good things that fold into that.
But then the biggest piece of networking is actually what happens after you leave. So it's the nurturer like you and I are gonna get off this podcast. And if I never talk to you, again, it might be like a good episode, or great episode or a bad episode, you know, whatever.
But it will only be that, whereas like, you know, we had a great conversation before we started this call. And I am excited to continue that conversation later. Because we got to know each other. And that's how you show your personal brand, like, you actually care about getting to know that other person.
And that's why people want to work with you, because they know that then you are interested in what they're having to offer. You're not saying, you know, hey, here's my business card, I do this, like, here's my elevator pitch, like, let me squish all of this in. But when you ask questions, you are going to stay top of mind, and it gives you fuel to follow up with them later, and then potentially sell to them or build those referrals or affiliates, or, you know, the bazillion other things you know, and then it also gives you the ability to continue to connect that other person.
So, you know, Becca, like now that I've gotten to know a little bit about your business outside of just listening to your podcast and being a fan. I'm like okay, I think I know who she actually works with like I can hear it, who you're actually working with. So now like when I bump into that kind of person, or more now I know the kind of guests you want, like a quality guest who wants to share the content that you're putting out and, and really like, cares about your podcast and the podcast growth for you.
And then I'm going to refer the people to you and I'm going to actually send a personal introduction and you will always remember me forever because of that. Because it's you know, you're showing like, I'm not just here for myself, like I'm here for you too.
Becca 14:28
So if you guys are, you know, repeat listeners to Probably Bothered, you will know that I love to talk to people before I press record. And then I have great conversations that you don't get to hear. So I promise we're gonna circle back at the end. I'm not going to leave you hanging.
I want to stay focused on Sara because the conversation that we had wasn't exactly focused on Sara, but we'll get there I promise. One of the things that I'm super curious about because effectively, and maybe this isn't necessarily true. You tell me if this is true. District Bliss was the second business that you started.
Okay. Yeah, cuz photography was first in District Bliss was I wasn't sure if there were any like, you know, sometimes I had a blog once in my past you never know. So being that you started a business from the benefit of having been an entrepreneur before, was there anything surprising or unexpected, or difficult that you didn't see coming? When you started District Bliss?
Sara 15:33
Yes, actually, when I'm talking about networking, and I'm talking about business education and building your business to be stronger, it is a very different thing than showing you like you can scroll through my photography, Instagram, and you know exactly what my style is, you know, everything about my business, it is right there in front of you, you know, that I'm inclusive, you know, that I give back, you know, that I'm environmentally conscious, like, it's evident in the photos, you know, I don't have to even have a caption.
Whereas, if I'm showing if I'm talking about networking, there's a lot more talking than me, and question answering, there's a lot more barrier. And that surprised me, which I think is why I then was over wording and over articulating what District Bliss was because I had had success with not having to talk about my business at all. And then suddenly, I had to talk about my business. And I was talking about it way too much.
And so it was just a really interesting learning curve for me, because I was like, why am I already a business owner? Like, why is this so hard? And it was, you know, District Bliss was about right away for the in-person stuff. And it has morphed and changed over the years. It's been since 2014.
But it was a lot of like, once you like, it seemed different. So you came, it was really cool. But then we had a lot of spin-off kind of people that were like hopes were like, Oh, this is going really well for them, I want to host events like this. And I was like, you know, which is great. Like, the more the merrier, because then that also means I can go to your networking events and find, you know, my people there too, which is the idea, right?
Like, there's more than enough business out there for everyone. But then once I had to articulate what was different about me, I couldn't lean on my visuals in the same way. You couldn't see. I mean, you could see my personality through my photos, because everything I think crosses my face, but I laugh a lot. I just generally am a kind person, I did come through with photos.
And I know that but it was just it was a lot harder to articulate the transformation for the client, verses like, you can look at your wedding for the wedding photos of someone else and expect that similar product. Unless I, just was really terrible and lying and stealing someone else's photos and not doing it at all at the beginning or whatever.
But like, generally speaking, whereas you know, you might not have like, it's harder to figure out the transformation from a networking event, it's harder to, to even measure it because sometimes it is that you didn't do your part on the back end. Like you didn't follow up with that person.
So you just went to the event. And then you met someone, you got a card, maybe you've added them to your list, maybe they unsubscribe because you didn't ask to add them to your list
Becca 18:35
Let’s not talk talk about that.
Sara 18:38
Pro tip right there. But you know, like, if you don't reach out to that person and continue that connection, then you're just kind of you might as well honestly not really have gone, unless you're committing to going back and seeing the person and you know, those people in person again and again and again, are on similar events, again, really, that post-event nurtures is where you're going to see the conversion. And it was hard to articulate that.
Becca 19:03
Yeah. And I think going back to this idea of you really kind of rewrote the script on networking, the way that you run these events. And that also means that you have to re-educate your guests on what it means to come to your event and what the expectations are.
So not only is this a networking event, but it's not really a networking event, like what you're used to. And here's what you should expect. And here is my expectation of you as well as a guest.
And I think this is something that I see a lot of people struggle with how do you kind of tell people that they have a problem that they didn't know existed?
Sara 19:47
Yeah, and that's one of the hardest things about being a business owner Right. I see it all the time when I'm introducing people and they like they'll start to glaze over if they think they don't have that problem and I'm like, I'm introducing you because you do have that problem.
That's neither here nor there. But it is, you know, it is educating. It is educating people that they need the service without her saying you need this service because you don't have enough clients, you're not making enough money, and you don't have the resources you need.
You're not developing true connections, you're just kind of like, yeah, so it is re-educating people. And it, a lot of it again, is language that you the language that you're using, and hitting those pain points, I guess, to say, like, is this you?
Are you struggling with this? And that's one of the things that I always start with? Are you struggling with finding real meaningful connections, which totally sounds like a dating thing? Actually a lot like dating where Honestly, all the same principles apply.
Becca 21:00
I want to go back to something that you said earlier, about, I think he said spin-off people kind of coming to an event, and then they start their own thing or, or maybe like coming and then not returning to another future event.
And that got me on this track of one of my favorite topics, which is redefining success. And so I want to know, in your business, how do you define what success looks like? And the reason I'll tell you why, how I got here because sometimes that helps you make the connection that I'm making.
Because I instantly thought, okay, one of my metrics, if I were you would be how many times has Becca come back to an event or x person come back to an event? So do you have a kind of unique metrics around that? Or where does your brain go when you define what success looks like?
Sara 21:53
So that is a piece of it. Because of course, that means I'm doing something right? If you're coming back, and maybe you aren't telling me why you're coming back, but why you're coming back is more important to me.
So what I, the way I define success is if someone is able to if I'm able to say oh, you're looking for a social media engagement specialist, I actually have this person that I really like, who I think is a good fit for what you've been doing online that I've been watching.
I try to always, you know, do my homework, I like to make sure that I know the people that I'm connecting with because, for me, that's a huge piece of my success is knowing that I'm connecting people with the right people. And if I if it, if it isn't a great match, then it's always kind of a bummer for me because I'm like, I really pride myself on those connections.
So you know, having a variety of people who are in each category for a team or for partnerships, collaborations, podcast hosts, or speaking engagements, it gives me the ability to then like, make sure it's a good fit. So for me, knowing that it's a good fit is one way I define success.
And then knowing that I've created a space where people feel safe, warm, and welcome is also a way that I define success. And you can tell that in the room, you can tell that even when it's virtual. And specifically when I've created a space where introverts feel comfortable stepping up and speaking because that's a whole different level of success right there. That means I've made a really safe space.
Becca 23:36
Yeah, I love that none of that included the number of people at each event number or like have total revenue from each event, like all of those traditional business metrics, I feel like one of the things that it gets kind of pushed at you, when you start a business of what's your business plan, how much do you want to make, you know, etc, etc.
And those things are important, right? I'm not saying that like that money doesn't matter. Money obviously matters, you have to pay bills. But at the same time, one of the things that I love about the conversations I've had on this podcast is the realization that there are so many other things that are equally if not more important than money. But for some reason, we don't have those conversations as often.
Sara 24:22
Yeah, and honestly, it's so interesting, because women are conditioned not to really speak about money.
So it's fascinating to me that we don't talk about the other stuff as much, but it's also fascinating to me that you must be creating a safe space where people feel comfortable speaking about money, do we just, you know,
Becca 24:42
oh my gosh, that was happy noise. You guys. That just made me so happy because that is I mean, just like what you're saying that's one of my goals is that this becomes a safe space where we can have the conversations that people don't want to have or don't feel like they can have in other avenues News. So thank you for saying that.
Sara 25:02
It's so true and looks like I can tell right now that that is something that you didn't even realize you were defining as a success point.
Becca 25:09
Yeah, that's very true. That's definitely one of the things that I've also noticed is, with a lot of my guests, the further you are into your business, the more obvious and more apparent these alternative versions of success become, it's definitely a lot easier, the further you get into your business to feel more comfortable and more confident talking about those things.
Because a lot of times, when you're so early on in the process, it seems like the way you define your success is based on money or objectively countable things. Because a lot of times, that's all you have to measure when you're that early on.
Sara 25:49
Yeah, and you're nervous, and nerves play into whether or not you're gonna read that somebody's having success from you know, you're so overwhelmed and overworked frankly when you start a business, you know, it's not, it's not easy, and it's pretty exhausting.
Becca 26:06
Definitely. It's time to get to my favorite question, which is, of course, what bothers you? What, what in this space? Would you like to see change?
Sara 26:18
I would like to see change... I mean, there are so many things I would like to see change. But one thing that we haven't touched on, you know, that we didn't touch on privately before we started this podcast recording, but that has always been something. And I found that I said it about 20 times during this recording.
It bothers me that people still in this day and age believe that networking is where you go in and you talk about yourself. Because not everybody is the right client for you. How are you screening that that person is the right client? How are you screening that that person is going to be interested in what you have to offer?
How do you know you can serve that person with your product or service? How do you know that that person has a problem that you can solve? If you aren't asking questions.
And it's really easy to go in thinking like we need to talk about who we are, well, that person is going to ask about you, you will get your chance.
But in order for you to know that that is the right client, you don't want to be working with someone who's not your ideal client. Ever. Every single person that has asked me for a discount on wedding photography has been my most difficult client.
Becca 27:36
That does not surprise me.
Sara 27:39
Yeah. And that's and, you know, it would seem like, you would think it would be the opposite. They're asking for a discount, they're asking for something, like easier. They want to make it easier for you, right? Like, but no, it's always so much harder than they come back with a list of edits, or whatever the case may be.
I don't take those clients. I just don't if they asked for a discount, you know, I let them know, this is my pricing my prices or my price.
But it's a very similar thing. Like you don't want to work with that person who is going to send you those lists and lists and lists of edits like it. Yes, it's money coming in the door. But that is not that does not make for a happy life. And that's as entrepreneurs, it's really easy to think, oh, I should be getting paid, like I need to be getting paid, I need to pay the mortgage this month. So I'm going to take what I can get.
But wouldn't you rather invest the time in finding the right client? And maybe that takes a little bit more work, but it's more work on screening, and then it's a happier life, you're an entrepreneur because you wanted to put something great out into the world and you wanted freedom and you wanted to work on your own terms.
So why are you taking on a client who is going to work make you work on their terms, and it's going to be miserable, and it's going to be so much harder and you're going to be frustrated, and then they're not going to have a good experience and they're going to give you a shitty review. So don't compromise who you are. And ask questions. I guess
Becca 29:07
I have two thoughts on this. And I'm gonna tell you one relates to podcasting. I'm telling you this. So don't forget that. And the second reverse relates to sales calls. So I'm going to start there. I hate sales calls and
Sara 29:20
Running them or being on them?
Becca 29:22
I hate when they are unnecessarily a part of somebody's process. And the reason that I hate them not all sales calls, you can do sales calls that are great sales calls and sometimes necessary depending on what service you offer. But for a long time, there was this idea that sales calls had to be this very prescriptive, prescriptive scripted process.
Yep, that was a mouthful. And the reason that this relates to what you were just saying is because while it seemed as if you were asked asking a lot of questions. You were really leading the conversation in a way that didn't get to know that person. It wasn't a genuine interaction.
And I think a lot of times the result of that conversation became having what I will lovingly refer to as a problem client. Yes. And my theory about sales calls is if you need them to be part of your process, which not everybody does, and you don't lead them with a script, and you just have a genuine conversation of getting to know that person and their business and seeing if you're the right person to help them, you will automatically identify problem clients and choose whether or not you want to work with them.
Sara 30:47
Yes, yes, yes. All those things, yes. And be unattached in that in a sales conversation, you know, you're not offended that they don't have the problem that you thought they had may probably still have another problem that you may be able to solve, or still good client care, even if they don't hire you, if you find they have a problem, that you have someone else that can solve that problem in your arsenal in your network that you've built out, then refer them out. In my photography business, and I'm not even here to talk about that. I keep talking about it. But
Becca 31:26
It’s all experience, that's okay.
Sara 31:28
you know, not since not everyone is my ideal client, I don't take anyone who isn't. I'm very particular because I have two businesses. And frankly, I just don't have time to take them if they're not my ideal client.
But I have a whole bunch of other photographers that I love that I refer out to and I find who that fit is for their budget and their vibe because it's really important to like, you know, a wedding you spend more time with your photographer than anyone else that day, including your significant other
Becca 31:54
That is very true. I do know now. Yeah.
Sara 31:57
But I will refer out all the time. And you know, pass them along to the next person that I think is the better fit for them. And I have had so many of those people come back and refer other friends that are getting married to me, not to the fact that photographer that they hired.
And the reason is that it's good client care to give that person the right fit for them. And they will always remember that you prioritized the right fit. It seems really counterintuitive, but I mean, I, I've made a lot of money on.
Becca 32:30
Yeah. But it makes total sense. Because if you're leading conversations, from the mindset of truly getting to know someone and truly building that connection, whether or not they work with you is irrelevant. Of course, that's nice, right?
Of course, but they'll remember that interaction, and they'll remember how you made them feel.
Sara 32:52
I was just thinking that that, you know, people don't remember the things you said, but they remember the way you make them feel.
We have all heard this, but that's how networking should be you should ask questions that really make that person feel seen and heard and like you care about them because you do like, you're not just here to grab money.
That's it. Being an entrepreneur is too hard to like, have that be your goal, to just grab money wherever you can get it. That's just not it's not what we're here for.
Becca 33:19
Right? Okay, now I'm gonna turn the conversation to my number two topic, which was podcasting. This is the conversation that Sara and I had before we pressed record, we were talking about podcasting. And specifically the process of reaching out to podcast hosts becoming a guest on people's other people's podcasts and kind of what you do after the fact.
And so this point Sara brought up about and how did you phrase this? The problem is people think networking is where you go, and you talk about yourself. I'm rambling into this intro. But the important point for you guys to know as well is that Sara is the host of two podcasts. So the two of us together have some quantifiable experience in receiving inquiries about our podcast and going through that process with others as well as a guest being a guest on other people's podcasts.
The same process applies whether you are networking in person, you're specifically going to a networking event, or you're doing something like an Instagram Live or being a guest on someone's podcast or guest blogging on somebody's website, whatever the mechanism is, it's a form of networking.
And we're seeing a few things as podcast hosts that need to be addressed. And one of the important points here that I hope that you know if you're listening that you take away is that as much as networking is about the other person, podcast guesting Can I use that as a verb?
Sara 35:01
Yes, I think, okay, yes, I'm here to support it. Okay.
Becca 35:05
It is about the audience of that person's podcast, right? So one of the things that bothers me is when I get those inquiries that say, “Hi, I want to be a guest on your show. And here's what I want to talk about”… with no mention of how it will affect you all my listeners.
So I don't know, I'd love to have a little bit more of the conversation that we were having surrounding that before we pressed record.
Sara 35:33
Yeah, and I honestly didn't tell you this. But I have the same experience with people who want to speak in front of my audience because we host workshops. And we're very particular about our workshops, and they have to have like good quality content.
But part of it is, you know, treating, not just thinking audience first because you know, when I reached out to you, I said, if this would be of interest to your audience, like networking is a really like, under-understood thing, that and if you feel like there's a gap there for your audience, that kind of thing, you know, where you're thinking about what's going to give value to that person and their audience, but you're also treating them the way you would want to be treated.
So you're not asking for something you are showing up and you're saying, I can, I'm happy to share this value that I have, if it's a good fit, part of what makes a good person a good speaker, or a good guest? Is that your audience as the person who is a guest?
So right now I am on the Probably Bothered podcast, right? But like my audience, that District Bliss is always interested in hearing me speak, they're following me because they want to know what I have to say.
They find value, there's content there that they are going to get a little bit like, even if it's something they've heard me say before, they're getting something different from it every time people need to hear you say something seven times before it even like goes into their brain permanently. So you know, your people want to hear from you. So why wouldn't you tell them where they can hear from you. It's serving your audience, too, as the guest.
Becca 37:15
Absolutely. And the other piece of the conversation that you had brought up before we pressed record, I just, I love that sin, that cardinal sin of podcasting, I just can't help myself. But the other thing that you had brought up was, how much of a benefit it is to you as a guest to have content to share and repurpose?
Sara 37:37
Yes. I mean, why would you reinvent everything, every time I can take the transcript from this podcast, I can pull quotes from things that I said, I can make graphics from that. I can then tag, of course, Probably Bothered podcasts.
Like, why wouldn't I do that? Why am I inventing things over and over again? Why wouldn't I save myself so much time, and just, you know, pull audio clips if this if I needed to?
And then you know, give credit where credit is due, obviously, and say, Go listen to this podcast episode, I talk about all of these things on there. This is just a little micro clip of that. Because your people want to hear from you. And you don't need to be reinventing your content every time. Why are we working so hard?
Becca 38:20
So this is what I want to do. I want to create the anatomy of the perfect collaboration experience. So I'm saying think collaboration, because like we said, it could be podcast blog, it could be in-person speaking, whatever it is that you're reaching out to somebody else to do.
If you are hoping to work with somebody in an I don't want to say this in a negative way. But in an effort to gain a new audience gain their audience, that's effectively what collaboration is.
I think there are some things to keep in mind. So your message to me 100% stood out because of the way that you went about it. Would you be comfortable if we shared your outreach? Show me for Probably Bothered in the show notes?
Sara 39:10
Yeah, absolutely. I don't remember specifically what I said. But I mean, it left an impression as a guest before I reached out, I listened to Probably Bothered, because otherwise why would I bother being on Probably Bothered, it wasn't a good fit for me.
Becca 39:29
I love it. So. Okay, so let's start from the beginning. Let's start from pre outreach just like you did. So first step is really assessing that person and understanding. You know, who their audience is, what they speak about, and what you can add to their content that is related and beneficial. Yeah,
Sara 39:52
I would say in doing that, listen to a couple of different episodes so like, do a cursory screening of time titles or descriptions, and hopefully this person titles and describes their podcast well, otherwise, you may want to cross that off the list right away, because then their audience is also going to be struggling or their potential audience is also going to be struggling to figure out what the content is.
So I guess, step one is to figure out what the content is, and then figure out which episodes and choose some that don't overlap. So maybe ones that are of interest to you. I'm trying to remember what episodes I listened to for yours. But I listened to three. And they were all very different people that had come on, they had very different backgrounds. I know one of them was not an American, I can't remember what Her background was, though.
But you know, find a bit of diversity that overlaps with things that you're interested in. Because then that way, you get a solid picture of what this person is doing. And you know, you know, okay, so maybe that person really is a good interviewer.
And they're taking the things you say, as you go, writing some notes into this is happening right now. taking some notes on things and then doing callbacks within. So they're kind of like playing to your strengths.
You'll hear that in the other person's in on the person on the other side's interview that guest you'll hear that they are enjoying engaged in the conversation. It's easy to listen to one episode and think that the person's engaged, but then maybe that's like a friend of the person. So you don't want to find the outlier episode, and then hang your hat on that. Listen to three. And then the other thing I did when I reached out, well, this is pre reached out. So sorry, no, let's get
Becca 41:41
so we're gonna skip right into sending an outreach, DM or email or however, you want to do it. So you start and then all add on this time.
Sara 41:51
Okay, so you now have screened it, you know, it's a good fit, you are not reaching out to the wedding dish my one of my podcasts and saying, I am an unmarried person who doesn't work with wedding professionals or people who are getting married, I have nothing to do with weddings at all. In fact, I, you know, speak against them or something.
Like, then it's your show, or laughing with gingers. I have no sense of humour. And I don't like to have fun. Can I come on your show? Got to the wrong person, my friend. So and then let them know what that value is that you can add with in a way that indicates that you have listened to the show? Because that's gonna make you stand out.
One of the first things that one of our first interactions, Becker responded to me and she said, Have you listened to the show? And I said, Yes, I listened to three episodes, I think I listed one of them. And the reason that I liked that I realized it would be a good fit when I was listening to at that point.
And I think I made I had like a couple points from that episode that stuck with me. I'm not sure if I actually shared them. Or if that was just my initial process before I reached out that that's why I reached out. I can't remember, it's been a bit of a time, but I'm making it clear that you are our audience-centric, because that's why people podcast.
They're not podcasting. I mean, it is fun in its own way. And it's a way to network. And it's a way to collaborate. And it's a way to like fill your funnel, you know, you're showcasing your expertise, if you're hosting a podcast, but also, it's not something you see the return on investment from immediately.
So people are not doing this because they're making 1000s and 1000s of dollars. Not everyone is my favorite murderer, where you know, and then it took them years to get to where they are today where they have millions of downloads per episode and, they're making their full salary from podcasting and performing.
It takes a long time to get there. So when you're reaching out to someone who is a podcaster, keep in mind that the thing that they're doing, they're doing it because they love it, and letting them know that there was an impact that they had on you is going to go a huge distance.
Becca 44:12
Absolutely. And I would add, make sure that you understand the style of the show. Because you all know listening to my podcast. I don't particularly say, Sara, tell me about your business and all of the opportunities to work with you and all of your service offerings, right.
I like to talk about the approach to your business and how you got there and how it shifted over time and the things that you had to unlearn in order to achieve the things that you have achieved in your business. And particularly, I think that those are interesting conversations to have. And I think my audience resonates with them, mostly because you all message me and say, oh my gosh, I've been thinking this for so long. And finally, someone has said it. So I know that it resonates with you all so much.
If you are, you know, looking to purely promote your thing, this is not the podcast for you. And so those kinds of distinctions are also important in terms of alignment with the niche, but also the approach to the show.
The other thing is, I think that you all would know this from listening as well. I don't script my podcasts. I don't think of questions beforehand, I don't send a list to my guests to say, here's what you should expect. And if that is your style, if that is what you need to thrive as a guest as an interviewee, this isn't the show for you, because I have no idea what I'm about to say before I say, if we're being honest
Sara 45:40
So you have good instincts.
Becca 45:43
Thank you. So, but just kind of paying attention to those things in terms of, you know, maybe it's the extrovert versus introvert conversation that we were having, but how you like to operate and how you feel comfortable and prepared operating. You want to find a host that operates in a similar way so that you can thrive as a guest as well.
Sara 46:03
Yes, absolutely. And you want to make sure, and this is something that I, in my mind, just assume everyone knows. But it is not something that everyone knows. Make sure that their code of conduct and ethics aligns with your values.
Like if you think that talking about things that bother you, or sharing something is just like, it's against your values, like you don't want to talk about something that bothers you, then don't go on Probably Bothered, it's not the right fit.
Or if you just really dislike redheads, then maybe you don't come on laughing with gingers, because it's not the fit for you. I get it like, No.
Becca 46:48
That's okay. Right? Everything is not for everyone. And it's okay. It's about finding the place that you will thrive as a co-collaborator.
Yeah, we're not just talking about podcasts, I'm going straight to podcast and my brain. Okay, so then, after outreach, we have the actual piece of collaboration, I am going to just make an assumption here that it's going to vary depending on the type of collaboration.
So I'm not going to get into that. But let's get into the follow-up. So we've done the thing, we've done the interview, the Instagram Live, whatever it was, and we're after the fact, what comes next.
Sara 47:29
So before we get to that, the only thing I want to add in is, if it is a no pitch, no sell collaboration, don't go on there and pitch and sell.
Becca 47:39
Good point. Good point.
Sara 47:41
Don't go out there and say, you know, I have a freebie and I'm gonna assume that Becca is going to link to it in the show notes. And it's this. Don't do that. That's it, you know, honor that person's show? Don't take it over. Okay, now, although I did just kind of take that statement over to him, it's fine.
Becca 47:59
I'm okay with what you did. Okay, so we're gonna go after the fact now. And we're going to talk about this is my process, I'm going to tell you what my process is, you told me if yours is different.
So my process is to send a thank you note, whether I am the host of Probably Bothered, or it's just like a general collaboration. I love to you know, thank the person for their time, and then just kind of, you know, say like, what were your thoughts? Did you think it went well? Is there anything we could change in the future? How do we make it better for both of us?
And then I, my next step would be whenever it comes out, whatever it was, if it wasn't an immediate live kind of a thing, to share it as much as I can, as often as I can. Yeah. Also, oh, I lied to you. I have one more if it is a podcast, if we're thinking more specifically, subscribe. And review.
Sara 48:54
Yes, that is an underrated thing to do too, to follow rate and review. And it really does, it makes a huge difference in where people show up, it makes a difference in the quality of guests that the podcast host is getting.
So I send, I send swipe files, I spend send graphics to the person, I send them the link to their show notes and their transcript. I let them know the date that it's going live and say thank you, if it's a live collaboration, where it's like a speaking opportunity where someone leads a workshop or a roundtable for District Bliss, then I will have like, where everyone gets off the call. And then like right afterward, we will have a conversation about I thought you did really well when you did this. And I think people were really engaged. It seemed like there were a lot of really good questions. Is there anything you would like me to know for the future bla bla bla bla bla, is there anything you need for me moving forward, that kind of thing?
So if it's, you know, not like a live launch thing, then you know, I'll reach out and say, I really enjoyed having you on like these were some personal it's a template, but I have personal items in there. And I think that that's an important piece too. And then I also say, if you have like-minded guests that you think would be a good fit, here's the link to send them to apply.
Because I think that's another good piece when you have come on a podcast and you felt really like connected with that host. And you had a really good time and you felt like it was a really good fit, then it's really nice to be like, Oh, my gosh, you know, I think my friends so and so would be great for Probably Bothered. They're very similar to me. They love to give content, they love to share their expertise. They're not there to like pitch and sell and like, whatever talk about how amazing they are themselves, they're there to share content, their audience focused.
So then, you know, sending someone a guest that they don't have to screen in the same way is also really nice. It's nice to not to, to be like, okay, you know, I sent my episode over to that person, and they enjoyed my episode, they've listened to it. Now I'm going to connect them with that. podcast host or collaboration host. And then the other thing I do, I save all of those links in a spreadsheet, I have the date, I have the title, I have the topic I spoke about, I have the link.
And the reason that I do that, is that later, I go back through when I need content. And I'm like, Oh, what am I going to talk about this month on my social media, then I go back, I listen to whatever it is that I was talking about. I'm like, Okay, this is a really good point that I made. And I'm going to share this specific thing.
So instead of reinventing the wheel, I'm taking something I've already done and just repurposing it. And it just makes my life so much easier. But it's such a great thing for the other person to know that like, it's a year and a half later, I am still sharing your podcast.
Becca 51:56
Yeah. Well, and I don't know if you're anything like me, but when I have live conversations, that's when you like, I get excited. And you see my body language change. And I can't wait to say this thing. Because I don't know, that's where the magic happens.
Yeah. So it's a great thing, if you are ever not sure of what you want to post about that day to go back and remember, oh my gosh, I was so excited to say this thing. And maybe I can expand on that idea. And so it's, that's one of my favorite things about my podcast is that all of my ramblings are saved for eternity.
Sara 52:28
Yes, and it just makes for such good content. And it's easy to pull a quote and make a graphic and then say, like, want to hear more about this topic? Well, that's what this whole episode was about, or that's what the whole workshop that I led for. So and so is about here's the link, like, go here. And that increases the other person's domain authority, because you're linking between which is SEO. So search engine optimization.
So you, you know you are then basically SEO, like in link back form would be like giving that person and know like trust factor stamp for your audience, and your audience, always looking for opportunities to listen to what you have to say, that's why they're hanging out as your audience, whether that's on social media or wherever.
Becca 53:15
Yeah, that's the personal brand piece. They like what you say they'll follow you wherever you say it.
Sara 53:20
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So give them the opportunity to hear you in more spaces.
Becca 53:28
And then I'm going to skip to the after I'm going to call it the after-after it's a very technical term. That is when the magic happens, right? That's when you continue to build relationships. And, and I'll tell you guys, like very honestly, I would say, to this point, probably about half of my guests are people that I know in real life, their business friends I've met over the years, but half of them are people that I'm meeting for the first time after a screening process of listening to their content, getting to know them on social and you know, all these those things, but these some of these conversations are first time conversations.
And there are people that I have had on this podcast, that I would not consider friends. And it all started with a conversation just like this one. And personally whether or not it impacts your business in the long run, but they are the people that I have some of the best conversations with that I can continue to shape my thoughts and my ideas that maybe I turn into content in the future. But without continuing that conversation. None of that would happen.
Sara 54:33
Okay, I'm gonna let you in on a secret here.
Becca
What's that?
Sara
That's networking. So that's networking that's you know, you're building out your network by continuing the conversation networking is just having a conversation and and having a meaningful conversation at that so that you can both be better humans afterward and better business owners and I mean, you obviously do a good job of it if you have brought a signal If we can't amount of your guests into your actual network, where now you can refer out to them, you can rely on them when you need content.
You can ideate with them, you can ask them the tough and sometimes embarrassing questions, when you don't know what something like C suite means because you never worked in the corporate world, which I didn't. I had no, I had no idea of what C-suite met, but you have those people that you can ask those tough questions to?
And maybe the tough questions are, do I need to raise my rates? Or why are my clients not sticking around? Having those people that you can rely on? Like you, you find them through networking, and whether you know, it's not working or not, is a totally different situation. But that's what you're doing? Yeah.
Becca 55:47
I love that. You said that, because this whole conversation that we just had about collaborating was not a frivolous conversation, it completely related, beginning to end with the conversation about community building, connection and networking. And I'm going to swing it to the end here, because we have covered a wide scope of, of topics at this point. But if you want to continue to learn about networking, or actively do some networking, I'm going to let Sara let you know where you can find her online. And of course, if you have any freebies, please feel free to plug them and I will link them in the show notes.
Sara 56:27
So District Bliss, you can find us at district plus.com on social media, we're at District Bliss events. And you know, we host networking socials that very much have the vibe of this conversation that we have just had here. We that's this is the kind of conversation we attract, and foster. And it's, it's just it's not, it's not only beneficial it's also fun. So if you are sick of the stodgy networking scene, then this is the place for you. And I actually do have a freebie that is networking pro tips. It's like a checklist of getting ready. And that includes virtually, you know, why make life more difficult?
Becca 57:10
Yeah, absolutely. All right, Sara, thank you so much. I loved our conversation. I'm not sure I laughed more on a single episode of probably bother than I did on this one.
Sara 57:21
But flattered.
Becca 57:24
Honestly, it was such a good time. So I appreciate your time and you sharing your experience with your business and your expertise with us today.
Sara 57:33
Thank you so much, Becca, I love probably bothered. And of course, I'm going to remind you all definitely follow rate and review Probably Bothered because Becca is amazing.
Becca 57:43
Now I don't even have to do an outro. So check done!
This conversation about how to be a true collaborator, when you're doing a collab or you're connecting with someone online. It's a conversation that I have wanted to have, for a really long time. It's really easy to get caught up in the day-to-day and to do what needs to be done. But this was a really great reminder to take a step back and think, How can I build a strong relationship with this person?
How can I bring my A-game to this effort, and make sure that whatever it is that we're doing together, has the best results for myself and for the person I'm collaborating with? I'd love to hear your thoughts on the recipe first collab success that Sara and I outlined. And if you think we've missed anything, DM both of us and let us know what you would add to the recipe.
All right, thank you so much for listening to this episode. As always, if you resonated with this conversation, if you would like to pass it along to a friend, I would be endlessly grateful. And if you want to subscribe or leave a review as well. That would make my day it would make my week if we're being honest. Until next week, this was Probably Bothered
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